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  #16  
Old 11-18-2020, 07:25 PM
cockfletch cockfletch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcasey755 View Post
I appreciate everyone’s help. Ive definitely spent hours upon hours while waiting for my riser watching Arne moe, clum sr, the Push, Etc. I am 40 minutes north of Vancouver Wa. Unfortunately we just announced a shutdown. Will continue to blank bale and look for people nearby.
I'm in Portland. Archery world is in Vancouver or there's a few other places to fling arrows. Let me know if you want to shoot and see if we can get you a bit more dialed in.

40 minutes north....you in Longview?

Also I'm not trying to claim I'm a pro or a coach. I just fling arrows and been through what your going through so I MIGHT be able to help.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2020, 01:24 AM
Fozziebear's Avatar
Fozziebear Fozziebear is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Oly WA
Hunting Bow: Morrison Phx with Blackmax wood / carbon
3D Bow: Same as hunting bow
Posts: 223
Default Re: Newbie help please!

Welcome to the forum, wcasey755. Lotta good info here.
I live in Olympia and I get out stump shooting pretty regularly. Iím not a coach, but Iíll be happy to fling some arrows with you and help where I can. Feel free to click on my avatar and send me a private message if you like.
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2020, 04:24 AM
wcasey755 wcasey755 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 7
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Originally Posted by cockfletch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcasey755 View Post
I appreciate everyone’s help. Ive definitely spent hours upon hours while waiting for my riser watching Arne moe, clum sr, the Push, Etc. I am 40 minutes north of Vancouver Wa. Unfortunately we just announced a shutdown. Will continue to blank bale and look for people nearby.
I'm in Portland. Archery world is in Vancouver or there's a few other places to fling arrows. Let me know if you want to shoot and see if we can get you a bit more dialed in.

40 minutes north....you in Longview?

Also I'm not trying to claim I'm a pro or a coach. I just fling arrows and been through what your going through so I MIGHT be able to help.
I’m in kelso, which is basically the same as Longview haha. Is archery world still even open?
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2020, 05:31 AM
cockfletch cockfletch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcasey755 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockfletch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcasey755 View Post
I appreciate everyone’s help. Ive definitely spent hours upon hours while waiting for my riser watching Arne moe, clum sr, the Push, Etc. I am 40 minutes north of Vancouver Wa. Unfortunately we just announced a shutdown. Will continue to blank bale and look for people nearby.
I'm in Portland. Archery world is in Vancouver or there's a few other places to fling arrows. Let me know if you want to shoot and see if we can get you a bit more dialed in.

40 minutes north....you in Longview?

Also I'm not trying to claim I'm a pro or a coach. I just fling arrows and been through what your going through so I MIGHT be able to help.
I’m in kelso, which is basically the same as Longview haha. Is archery world still even open?
Dunno if they are open currently but we can find out real quick. There's also XXX archery across the river in st helens. They do mostly compound there but cory, the owner, is a good dude and they have a range. Worst case this shit down will hopefully only last 2 or 4 weeks depending on the county. And there's always outdoor, I stump shoot almost every Sunday.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2020, 07:01 AM
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stevelong stevelong is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: southern ia
Posts: 11,508
Default Re: Newbie help please!

Casey, get with someone there to critique your style etc.
Albert's a good guy, and someone watching you - not a coach - can still see your FORM and see if you "look like everyone else". Most of the masses shooting have some real similar earmarks to their form, "the basics" with some individual minor variations.
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Last edited by stevelong; 11-19-2020 at 10:15 AM.
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  #21  
Old 11-19-2020, 10:04 AM
Fozziebear's Avatar
Fozziebear Fozziebear is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Oly WA
Hunting Bow: Morrison Phx with Blackmax wood / carbon
3D Bow: Same as hunting bow
Posts: 223
Default Re: Newbie help please!

TNS Archery Outdoors in Winlock is still operating their range, with some limitations for Covid. And thereís Lucky Shot in Chehalis. Both are worth a call for sure.
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2020, 10:06 AM
cockfletch cockfletch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelong View Post
Casey, get with someone there to critique your style etc.
Albert's good guy, and someone watching you - not a coach - can still see your FORM and see if you "look like everyone else". Most of the masses shooting have some real similar earmarks to their form, "the basics" with some individual minor variations.
I'm Albert. I can also video you and we can dissect everything ok slow motion. Slow motion is your friend, it's show you things that you never knew where happening.
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  #23  
Old 11-19-2020, 12:11 PM
wcasey755 wcasey755 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 7
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Thanks for the ton of replies and help! I’m gonna drag one of you guys to the range to help for sure!
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  #24  
Old 11-19-2020, 12:13 PM
wcasey755 wcasey755 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockfletch View Post
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Originally Posted by wcasey755 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockfletch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcasey755 View Post
I appreciate everyone’s help. Ive definitely spent hours upon hours while waiting for my riser watching Arne moe, clum sr, the Push, Etc. I am 40 minutes north of Vancouver Wa. Unfortunately we just announced a shutdown. Will continue to blank bale and look for people nearby.
I'm in Portland. Archery world is in Vancouver or there's a few other places to fling arrows. Let me know if you want to shoot and see if we can get you a bit more dialed in.

40 minutes north....you in Longview?

Also I'm not trying to claim I'm a pro or a coach. I just fling arrows and been through what your going through so I MIGHT be able to help.
I’m in kelso, which is basically the same as Longview haha. Is archery world still even open?
Dunno if they are open currently but we can find out real quick. There's also XXX archery across the river in st helens. They do mostly compound there but cory, the owner, is a good dude and they have a range. Worst case this shit down will hopefully only last 2 or 4 weeks depending on the county. And there's always outdoor, I stump shoot almost every Sunday.
I tried calling them two days ago and couldn’t get a answer. I shot compound for years so Cory saw me quite a bit lol. If you don’t mind me tagging along! I work this Sunday but next Sunday! Or if you want a new place to stump shoot I’m on 300 acres in the woods!
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  #25  
Old 11-19-2020, 01:45 PM
Hank D Thoreau's Avatar
Hank D Thoreau Hank D Thoreau is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern California
Outdoor Target Bow: Bernardini Luxor with Border HEX6 limbs
Posts: 10,252
Default Re: Newbie help please!

First, what are your goals in archery? Are you focusing toward target shooting or bow hunting?

As far as starting out, a key is using an approach that provides reliable feedback so you know can tell whether changes you make are pushing your shooting in the right direction.

It is real easy to end up chasing the middle as you are learning. Your arrow goes high so you aim lower next time. But you don't know whether your arrow went high because you aimed high, or because you executed poorly. This leads to making changes with every shot, and learning little. This is why it is often preferred that you learn without a target face. This applies no matter what you experience level is. It is called blank baling. I used a modified version of it I call shooting tape.

My recommendation to start is to put a piece of tape on your target at the position where you want to point your arrow tip. Shoot a round of arrows (known as an end). Aim by placing the point of the arrow on the tape so you reduce the impact of aiming errors. Shoot all arrows for the end the same way, i.e. use the same form. Don't make changes in the middle of an end. Check and see where your arrows are falling relative to the center line of the target, and assess the size of the group. You want small groups on the center line. Three to six arrows is good. If you want to make a change, do it for the next end rather than in the middle of the end. Compare results as you make changes. Expect a lot of variability in the beginning. You may need to shoot many ends to assess your performance shooting a particular way, and many more ends to assess the impact of a change. It is not uncommon to make a change and suddenly have things get better. The improvement may not last, in fact, it often doesn't. There will be hundreds of times when you make a change and suddenly think you figured it out, but then problems return. As such, you have to be patient. Shooting tape takes a lot of aiming variation out of the process in the beginning and allows you to focus on form. Once you can execute a good shot, you can start experimenting with different aiming techniques. I believe this even applies to shooting instinctive. It is difficult to get consistent feedback when shooting instinctive because you don't have a good way to reduce aiming changes so you get good feedback on form. And when you can shoot a reasonably consistent group, you will be ready to tune. You can tune any time but you cannot tune better than you can group.

Another key is to choose a learning path. Find and choose the technique you want to learn. Coaching is great for this, but if there are none available then find an authoritative source to follow, whether book, video, or both. Learning is a process. You need to stick with the path no matter how confused you get, or how badly you start shooting, at least while building your foundation. There are fundamentals common to all shooting methods that you have to get down. Once you have the fundamentals down, it is easier to make personalized tweaks to better suit your individual preferences. Too many folks lack the patience to follow a plan and end up changing from one form to the next if they are not making the progress they expect (the old "I took six shots in the backyard with a tab and it didn't work so I went back to my glove"). There is no quick fix. You build form gradually rather than stumbling upon it suddenly. A key is that you have to be willing to get worse, if you are going to get better, at least if you are focused toward being the best you can possibly be.
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El Dorado Archers, Oranco Bowmen, Mojave Archers

Last edited by Hank D Thoreau; 11-19-2020 at 02:04 PM.
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  #26  
Old 11-20-2020, 03:49 PM
wcasey755 wcasey755 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank D Thoreau View Post
First, what are your goals in archery? Are you focusing toward target shooting or bow hunting?

As far as starting out, a key is using an approach that provides reliable feedback so you know can tell whether changes you make are pushing your shooting in the right direction.

It is real easy to end up chasing the middle as you are learning. Your arrow goes high so you aim lower next time. But you don't know whether your arrow went high because you aimed high, or because you executed poorly. This leads to making changes with every shot, and learning little. This is why it is often preferred that you learn without a target face. This applies no matter what you experience level is. It is called blank baling. I used a modified version of it I call shooting tape.

My recommendation to start is to put a piece of tape on your target at the position where you want to point your arrow tip. Shoot a round of arrows (known as an end). Aim by placing the point of the arrow on the tape so you reduce the impact of aiming errors. Shoot all arrows for the end the same way, i.e. use the same form. Don't make changes in the middle of an end. Check and see where your arrows are falling relative to the center line of the target, and assess the size of the group. You want small groups on the center line. Three to six arrows is good. If you want to make a change, do it for the next end rather than in the middle of the end. Compare results as you make changes. Expect a lot of variability in the beginning. You may need to shoot many ends to assess your performance shooting a particular way, and many more ends to assess the impact of a change. It is not uncommon to make a change and suddenly have things get better. The improvement may not last, in fact, it often doesn't. There will be hundreds of times when you make a change and suddenly think you figured it out, but then problems return. As such, you have to be patient. Shooting tape takes a lot of aiming variation out of the process in the beginning and allows you to focus on form. Once you can execute a good shot, you can start experimenting with different aiming techniques. I believe this even applies to shooting instinctive. It is difficult to get consistent feedback when shooting instinctive because you don't have a good way to reduce aiming changes so you get good feedback on form. And when you can shoot a reasonably consistent group, you will be ready to tune. You can tune any time but you cannot tune better than you can group.

Another key is to choose a learning path. Find and choose the technique you want to learn. Coaching is great for this, but if there are none available then find an authoritative source to follow, whether book, video, or both. Learning is a process. You need to stick with the path no matter how confused you get, or how badly you start shooting, at least while building your foundation. There are fundamentals common to all shooting methods that you have to get down. Once you have the fundamentals down, it is easier to make personalized tweaks to better suit your individual preferences. Too many folks lack the patience to follow a plan and end up changing from one form to the next if they are not making the progress they expect (the old "I took six shots in the backyard with a tab and it didn't work so I went back to my glove"). There is no quick fix. You build form gradually rather than stumbling upon it suddenly. A key is that you have to be willing to get worse, if you are going to get better, at least if you are focused toward being the best you can possibly be.
Fantastic advice! Thank you!
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  #27  
Old 11-21-2020, 03:23 AM
JohnnyJo1 JohnnyJo1 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Default Re: Newbie help please!

Hi, everyone! I also want to buy my first crossbow bolts. I have started archery recently...not really experienced. The thing is I am left-handed, and I am afraid it could be a problem. I've come across this article while choosing.
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  #28  
Old 11-21-2020, 05:48 PM
Hank D Thoreau's Avatar
Hank D Thoreau Hank D Thoreau is offline
Civil but Disobedient
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern California
Outdoor Target Bow: Bernardini Luxor with Border HEX6 limbs
Posts: 10,252
Default Re: Newbie help please!

Johnny, are you talking crossbow or compound? The link was to a compound bow article. Neither is really covered by this website. I actually tried to shoot a PSE TAC 15 crossbow as a left hander and had an issue sighting. That is the crossbow that looks more like an assault rifle. They had one set up at my local archery store. That is the same sighting issue I have trying to shoot a rifle right handed. I cannot line up the front and back sights. That's crossbows. Compounds are not a problem. You just need to get a left handed one. I have a few.

Disregard what that article you link to is telling you. Those 5 best type lists for stuff like this are not very good. There are plenty of excellent left handed compound bows at all price points. That is a really odd collection in that article. You will do better either going to an archery store, or contacting Lancaster Archery Supply and talking to their techs.
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El Dorado Archers, Oranco Bowmen, Mojave Archers
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