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  #16  
Old 07-30-2020, 02:41 PM
Jim Casto Jr's Avatar
Jim Casto Jr Jim Casto Jr is offline
 
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

Been bowhunting for 51 years and been fortunate enough to hunt a lot of critters in a lot of different places. I don't care about kenetic energy, speed or any of that stuff in the least because I've seen the evidence. Your 45# bow with a 550 grain arrow with a sharp broadhead from a well-tuned bow is plenty adequate to kill any critter in North America.

If your hunting deer-sized critters, I don't know why you'd use such a heavy arrow. 8.5 to 9 gpp is more than enough.


Oops! Sorry, no, I don't know a formula.
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2020, 03:01 PM
Tracker1 Tracker1 is offline
 
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

^^^^The head I’m using is a 150grn Magnus Stinger that I make sure is razor sharp. The arrow is a full length GT 500 with a 50grn insert. That’s what I ended up with after tune.
I figured at recurve speeds the heavier (with in reason) the better.
I’m just wondering if that’s about as good as I can get for 45lbs.
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  #18  
Old 07-30-2020, 03:47 PM
Tracker1 Tracker1 is offline
 
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Casto Jr View Post
Been bowhunting for 51 years and been fortunate enough to hunt a lot of critters in a lot of different places. I don't care about kenetic energy, speed or any of that stuff in the least because I've seen the evidence. Your 45# bow with a 550 grain arrow with a sharp broadhead from a well-tuned bow is plenty adequate to kill any critter in North America.

If your hunting deer-sized critters, I don't know why you'd use such a heavy arrow. 8.5 to 9 gpp is more than enough.


Oops! Sorry, no, I don't know a formula.
Do you have any or many pass throughs?
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  #19  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:07 PM
Jim Casto Jr's Avatar
Jim Casto Jr Jim Casto Jr is offline
 
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

On virtually all of them the arrow will , at least, bury to the fletching; sometimes I have to pull the arrows out of the dirt.

Roger Rothhaar was a banquet speaker at a WVBA event years ago. I've always remembered one of his remarks. He said, "As long as your broadhead passes through the hair on the off side of a deer you're okay; anything more is simply wasted energy."
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  #20  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:39 PM
pavan pavan is online now
 
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

I have heard more horror stories from people using mechanical heads getting very little penetration than anything else. In every case the bowhunter was shooting at odd angles and had terrible arrow flight. I have personally had a pass through with a [email protected]" Hill longbow shooting a 430 grain arrow with a 140 grain Hill broad head. My wife has repeatedly done the same with a variety of [email protected]" bows shooting Grizzly, Bear and Zwicky Eskimo heads on 420 to 430 grain arrows, total weight. That is over 10 grains per pound, but that is not where the penetration came from, it was from straight flying arrows and easy penetrating heads.
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  #21  
Old 07-30-2020, 05:15 PM
Tracker1 Tracker1 is offline
 
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

I remember back in the 60s hunting with recurves some liked not getting total pass throughs believing the arrow moving around kept the wound open if only a little bit before it got broke off. Another belief was an arrow stuck only through one side would cause the broadhead to move around inside slicing as the arrow got moved.
That was before the internet and shared experiences, also before good arrows and heads.
I shot a 50lb Ben Pearson and had no idea what the speed was on my bow or anyone else’s.
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  #22  
Old 07-30-2020, 05:17 PM
Tracker1 Tracker1 is offline
 
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavan View Post
I have heard more horror stories from people using mechanical heads getting very little penetration than anything else. In every case the bowhunter was shooting at odd angles and had terrible arrow flight.
Do people try to use expandables with recurves?
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  #23  
Old 07-30-2020, 08:12 PM
Hank D Thoreau's Avatar
Hank D Thoreau Hank D Thoreau is offline
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

I am going to tackle this question with my polynomial DFC model just for kicks. It is not setup to answer this specific question. I am will need to construct a DFC for each holding weight. I will probably work on it this weekend to give me time to make sure I don't make any mistakes. I may post the results separately.
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  #24  
Old 07-31-2020, 04:34 AM
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KPinWI KPinWI is offline
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

Rule of thumb 2 FPS for each additional pound with same draw, same arrow and same limb model and length. Changes of efficiency and extra mass of higher # limbs are second order effects on the normal range of 8 to 10 GPP hunting arrows. If you go to extremes of very light or very heavy arrows or very light or very heavy limbs then they become more significant . Kinetic energy while a useful indicator of bow/arrow combination efficiency, has only recently become an indicator of "killing power " due to marketing of compounds.
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  #25  
Old 07-31-2020, 05:19 AM
1829 1829 is offline
 
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

Tracker1, if you'd like me to...once it stops raining here in western MD and my shoulder feels better (almost 54 years old and slept on it wrong!) this is what I'd be willing to do:

My bow is a first generation TradTech Titian riser (17"). I have two sets of TT maple/glass limbs (the "2.0" ones). One pair are 40# mediums for a 60" bow, the other are 45# longs for a 62" bow. Bottomed out I know the 40# mediums are in the mid-44# range. And when John Wert was still at Lancaster Archery Supply, he was kind enough to take the time find a set of 45# longs that maxed out at 50# (50.12 to be exact). Hopefully the difference in bow length won't matter too much. I'll weigh my 30 5/8" Gold Tip traditional blems with a 145 grn field point to get a total arrow weight. Then I'll shoot them through my chrony at my 28.5" draw length and we'll see what happens! I've already done something similar to this but can't find my results. And while I have all this set up I might do some additional tinkering. And whether or not my old chronograph is super accurate or not...I don't know. But I DO know it will show the definite difference in speeds and I believe that's what you're looking for!

Matt
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  #26  
Old 07-31-2020, 07:16 AM
Nuthatch's Avatar
Nuthatch Nuthatch is offline
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracker1 View Post
Do people try to use expandables with recurves?
I'm sure you'll find an exception, but the answer is no.
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  #27  
Old 07-31-2020, 09:42 PM
Draven O's Avatar
Draven O Draven O is offline
 
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Default

There was a “rule of thumb” kind of for 10gpp arrow where the speed is 110 + bow poundage. For wood/glass recurves it is good enough - the ones I’ve checked are falling in the ballpark +|- 5fps.
The funny part is this: affordable or “best bang for the buck” ILF limbs are not far from it at all. They can send a 6gpp arrow without breaking but when you test them at 10gpp they don’t impress at all compared with a “vintage”.
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  #28  
Old 08-01-2020, 05:15 AM
Tracker1 Tracker1 is offline
 
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1829 View Post
Tracker1, if you'd like me to...once it stops raining here in western MD and my shoulder feels better (almost 54 years old and slept on it wrong!) this is what I'd be willing to do:

My bow is a first generation TradTech Titian riser (17"). I have two sets of TT maple/glass limbs (the "2.0" ones). One pair are 40# mediums for a 60" bow, the other are 45# longs for a 62" bow. Bottomed out I know the 40# mediums are in the mid-44# range. And when John Wert was still at Lancaster Archery Supply, he was kind enough to take the time find a set of 45# longs that maxed out at 50# (50.12 to be exact). Hopefully the difference in bow length won't matter too much. I'll weigh my 30 5/8" Gold Tip traditional blems with a 145 grn field point to get a total arrow weight. Then I'll shoot them through my chrony at my 28.5" draw length and we'll see what happens! I've already done something similar to this but can't find my results. And while I have all this set up I might do some additional tinkering. And whether or not my old chronograph is super accurate or not...I don't know. But I DO know it will show the definite difference in speeds and I believe that's what you're looking for!

Matt

Thanks but there is no need. I was just looking for a general formula to gauge what gains at what poundages when I was thinking about getting 50lb limbs.
The reality is that 45lbs is the top of my comfort zone so Ill stick with that but I appreciate the offer.
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  #29  
Old 08-01-2020, 07:40 AM
MartyA MartyA is offline
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

Tracker1, just some FYI from me. I have two Samick Journey setups, Sage except 2" longer limbs. The calculations can be slightly off due to my 31" draw. Arrows are 32" GT Hunters, 175gr tips, 3x4" feathers, 11gr insert, 8gr nock.

From Stu Miller spreadsheet:
50#@28, 340sp, 486gr., 8.2gpp, 200fps, 43lb/ft.
40#@28, 400sp, 463gr., 9.8gpp, 183fps, 34.5lb/ft

These are my setups that work based on 'Tuning for Tens.' Have not checked actual performance with these setups, but I did test my 40# bow once with 125gr. tips, got 186fps, so that 183 is likely close.

I did try to tune my 40# bow with my 340sp arrows just to try a heavier arrow, got close but never finished. I had to add 50gr. inserts and shave the strike plate a little.
On paper:
40#@28, 340sp, +50gr insert, 536gr, 11.3gpp, 171fps, 34.7ft/lb.
Had I finished tuning, these would be great for white tail in PA, but not elk, need 45# min draw.

HTH
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  #30  
Old 08-04-2020, 08:33 PM
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Bow Rider Bow Rider is offline
 
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Default Re: Poundage FPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracker1 View Post
^^^^ Ok, my bow is a Samick Sage and my hunting limbs are 45lbs, my arrow is 550grn.
Im thinking of going to 50lbs. Are you saying I could loose speed going to 50lbs, that sure goes against common thought.
I was trying to find what I might gain at 50 over the 45.
But I am thinking about another bow also. I really like the bow size and length but it seems to have a wall at 28 and at 29.5 that is not ideal for me.
I think the things you mention here are more important than a few FpS with heavier limbs.

I would advise against just getting 50# limbs for your sage. Your stacking issue will feel even worse. Perhaps try a 64" or 66" bow with 50# limbs. If you are tall enough to have a 29.5" draw, the few added inches to bow length shouldn't be a major hurdle.

The draw cycle may be more comfortable as well. A 62" bow is on the short side for someone of your draw length. I wouldn't be surprised if a 50# 66" bow feels more comfortable to you than your 45# Sage.
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