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  #1  
Old 09-16-2020, 03:39 AM
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Default Stop, aim then expand or just keep rotating

Heres a question on aim and back tension. Draw, come in to anchor, then aim, then pull through and release. If i have that stop start separation from aim to then expansion and release it is tougher to get through the clicker. Or how i find better back tension, draw to anchor, as i anchor i slow down but continue slowly building tension while finalising aim, still expanding i take my full focus off aim to my “here i go” click release. If it clicks before ive confirmed i like my aim i have to kind of hold the tension but feel like im going to just let go when i feel like, too conscious of a release. What’s the right way here?
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Stop, aim then expand or just keep rotating

The information from the world will not replace practice. If you can't find a Coach, the closest thing is to read KSL shot sequence and listen Jake Kaminski's youtube. But even then you must have an analytic mind to understand what are they saying. You don't need to "like" your aim
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: Stop, aim then expand or just keep rotating

"There are basically two options to get the clicker to go off. The first is the easiest to learn but the most difficult to be consistent. Stopping and starting is one that the largest majority of the archers use. This method is very simple to use, but as I said before, very difficult to master."

"The continuous method is the most successful skill an archer can acquire. What happens is that when they start the draw or motion, they continue to keep drawing until the clicker clicks and they let go." Rick McKinney

I've looked for years to find someone that addresses that exact question. Rick does an incredible job, even gets into what countries are taught. The above is just two paragraphs of a two page discussion.

Part of the problem in any sequence is it starts with stance, grip, hook...until you get to draw. All those things are 'do it' and 'move to the next'. Even after 'draw' there's anchor, transfer, aim, expand. That anchor followed later by expand imply a stop. Look at Brady 'shoot like me' on YoutTube and it sure looks like he's stopping.

Look at the most beautiful thing you ever saw on Youtube Ki Bo Bae in slow motion and you can see that she's probably in continuous motion? (The slomo is VERY slow.) Guess what two different countries.

It's my opinion that most of us that shoot without a clicker are better off with a stop 'n go method. Fred Asbel would of course disagree. I contend that the continuous without a clicker promotes short drawing and before you know it TP. That 'before you know it' can be six months or 25 years, you're going to get it. AND if it takes 25 years it's about impossible to get rid yourself of the problem.

Bowmania
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2020, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: Stop, aim then expand or just keep rotating

You will likely get a better answer from the folks on the FITA, NAA, College Archery and JOAD subforum over on ArcheryTalk. Most folks here do not use clickers, and those that do, probably do not use them correctly. It is not a typical barebow competency. There are some folks here that coach and likely teach clicker. But over there you will get folks that shoot clickers for a living.
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2020, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Stop, aim then expand or just keep rotating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam View Post
If it clicks before ive confirmed i like my aim i have to kind of hold the tension but feel like im going to just let go when i feel like, too conscious of a release. Whatís the right way here?

Bam, welcome to TT.
The quoted situation sounds like time to let down and abort the shot, which is a good skill to develop in itself. I havenít shoot a clicker much, so itís possibly best to ignore me on this.
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2020, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: Stop, aim then expand or just keep rotating

Letting down is a chore in itself.
Good point.

Chad
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2020, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven O View Post
. You don't need to "like" your aim
that came out not really how i meant it. Sometimes, continuously building tension the clicker goes before ive aquired my aim and moved my focus to finishing expansion and release
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Old 09-16-2020, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven O View Post
Bam, welcome to TT.
The quoted situation sounds like time to let down and abort the shot, which is a good skill to develop in itself. I haven’t shoot a clicker much, so it’s possibly best to ignore me on this.
That may be the right option, slow down a bit when retaking the shot.
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  #9  
Old 09-16-2020, 02:48 PM
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It was a bit of an “aha!” Moment going from stop start to continuous rotation. I came from compound so draw, stop, aim, pull through is what i was used to and the way you read or hear about the shot breakdown being laid out, it sounds very much step 1, move on, step 2, move on as someone on here put it. Was hoping to get a definitive answer That i was on the right track. Turns out there are 2 camps on this, great! Haha
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Old 09-16-2020, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Stop, aim then expand or just keep rotating

Semantics and how it winds up playing itself out in your head in these discussions comes from how you've been taught, learned, or coached. There is also mix and match from different sources.

Right now I come to anchor and then the "transfer" is me relaxing into the bone on bone, stable position, scapula, elbow, wall, thingy. Look to see if my gap corresponds to distance and DECIDE if I'm going to shoot. If so, then expand to conclusion, trying to concentrate on the movement. I'm a 99.5%, heck yeah I'm going to shoot decider, so I hardly ever let down. Gotta work on the go/no go criteria for sure.

Using a clicker is a whole 'nother thread. Don't want it to turn into a trigger instead of a blessing. So, for now, I'm in the stop camp.

When hunting I don't remember doing any of it.
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  #11  
Old 09-16-2020, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glynn View Post

Right now I come to anchor and then the "transfer" is me relaxing into the bone on bone, stable position, scapula, elbow, wall, thingy. Look to see if my gap corresponds to distance and DECIDE if I'm going to shoot. If so, then expand to conclusion, trying to concentrate on the movement. I'm a 99.5%, heck yeah I'm going to shoot decider, so I hardly ever let down. Gotta work on the go/no go criteria for sure.

Using a clicker is a whole 'nother thread. Don't want it to turn into a trigger instead of a blessing. So, for now, I'm in the stop camp.

When hunting I don't remember doing any of it.
Im very new to the stick. I don’t think i would ever shoot without a clicker its just how my brain works. Its a confirmation I’ve done all my jobs. In compound i would draw, come in to anchor, hinge would click as i anchor and transferred. Line up sights. These were all confirmations. Pull through. Stick works for me similarly, I don’t really think about transfer it’s happening while i confirm all my anchor confirmations. Middle finger in corner of mouth, feather touches tip of nose, thumb knuckle in jaw, string touches a particular spot on my eyebrow as my elbow comes round. Confirm aim while continuing rotating that last bit, click, release. Its only a problem as I outlined in my o.p if I don’t slow that portion of aim to expansion and it clicks before im finished aiming. So that’s what i need to work on is that cadence of the last few portions.

I bet its hard to not have it all go out the window when on an animal like you say. Haha
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  #12  
Old 09-17-2020, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Stop, aim then expand or just keep rotating

Generally speaking, if you pull through the clicker early, let down and start over. Eventually you get a good feel for where the clicker is, anchor just before it and expand through it.

As far as "stopping to aim" goes, it's not so much of a stop as an equilibrium of tension so that so that you are neither expanding nor collapsing. If you think "stop" you will likely collapse a little, resulting in more expansion needed to reach the click. It may help to think about it as if you are expanding, just not enough to pull through. Then when ready, add the tension needed to pull through the shot.
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Old 09-17-2020, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Stop, aim then expand or just keep rotating

Ok, I don't like to edit posts and just noticed you have shot compound with a hinge. The click is like the release on compound. You get comfortable with when the hinge will release. If it goes earlier than expected, you did something wrong. If you're pulling through and the release isn't going, you let down. Something is off. Same with stick bows and a clicker. It's very much like shooting a hinge with no click. Get a feel for when it 'should' happen. Shots when it happens sooner or later than expected, something is off.

Ideally, you're subconscious will release the arrow when the click happens, good or bad. Of course that isn't likely until you get comfortable with the the click and intuitively trust it. Kinda like trusting that your hinge release will tell you if you expanded too slow or too fast.
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Old 09-17-2020, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bow Rider View Post
Ok, I don't like to edit posts and just noticed you have shot compound with a hinge. The click is like the release on compound. You get comfortable with when the hinge will release. If it goes earlier than expected, you did something wrong. If you're pulling through and the release isn't going, you let down. Something is off. Same with stick bows and a clicker. It's very much like shooting a hinge with no click. Get a feel for when it 'should' happen. Shots when it happens sooner or later than expected, something is off.

Ideally, you're subconscious will release the arrow when the click happens, good or bad. Of course that isn't likely until you get comfortable with the the click and intuitively trust it. Kinda like trusting that your hinge release will tell you if you expanded too slow or too fast.
Thanks that clears it up a lot, good way of explaining it. Makes sense especially on letting down with the hinge (or more of a good analogy a tension activated release) you’re out of alignment/ collapsing and feel like you’re pulling the wheels off.
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  #15  
Old 09-17-2020, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Stop, aim then expand or just keep rotating

There is no 'hold' in the archery shot cycle. Microfatigue occurs quickly in the draw muscle so you must increase the effort the whole time. The string and arrow may stop but it does not feel as if they do. If the effort halts, collapse begins.

When the aim has settled, and you commit to the shot, increase the effort more, until the shot occurs.

This step is much the same whether or not your use a clicker. An archer in control of his shot may not shoot when the clicker goes off; he may still let down, or he may continue without the clicker. This is control.

Sometimes, sadly the shot goes off before the clicker does. Oops!

Do you want the clicker to control your shot, or do you want to control it? - lbg
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