TradTalk Forums  

Site Sponsors
Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Patron Membership
Board Menu
» Help
Go Back   TradTalk Forums > Main Category > TradTalk Main Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 03-08-2013, 04:35 AM
the other DWS's Avatar
the other DWS the other DWS is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berrien Springs, MI in the SW corner of the state
Posts: 4,893
Thanks: 290
Thanked 998 Times in 578 Posts
the other DWS is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

while I can't speak for custom bowyers who carefully craft their limbs using innovative material and designs------

IN general the limb length designations S/M/L and I assume xS and xL were designated to maximize overall benefits matched to specific draw length ranges. In general, long term experience seems to indicate that using shorts for longer than designed draw lengths and on longer risers generally results in excess stress in limbs and risks potential premature limb failure. I doubt that most of the major industrial limb mfgs would endorse or warranty such usages.

Obviously, if a custom bowyer/limb maker has confidence in his materials and limb designs and recommends such an application in that specific situation is assumed to be safe.

I would not personally recommend as a general practice without careful consultation with the specific limb maker in a custom situation, or the warranty provider in case of offshore industrially made limbs.

When dealing with used limbs, its a crap-shoot with your money and your well-being on the table.

Advanced technology and variant shooting techniques (string walking being just one example) have altered the long-time traditional dynamics. When you move outside the longterm established practices you need to give careful thought and do your due-diligence to avoid unwanted complexications

just say'n
__________________
sacred cows make better burger


"In my many years, I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a SHAME, two is a LAW FIRM and three or more is a CONGRESS." ~ John Adams
Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
  #17  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:53 AM
Rasyad's Avatar
Rasyad Rasyad is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Berkeley, California
Posts: 1,880
Thanks: 860
Thanked 442 Times in 337 Posts
Rasyad is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Hi Wayne,

Given my 27" draw, both short limbs and extra short limbs are well within the Hex 6 recommended design specification on a 27" riser. With my current setup on a 25" riser I had to choose between short and medium limbs. I went with medium limbs knowing that I would be not using them to full potential and did so thinking I would also use the limbs on a shorter riser for hunting. As it turns out I really only like shooting one bow and will be going with the extra short limbs, and extra speed.

Rasyad
__________________
It is not about archery; that is just the forum.

27" Win & Win Inno Max.
Extra Short Border Hex 6H BB2 55lb. @ 28in.
Carbon Express Nano Pro 400 field arrows
AMG Airforce GT 20 Smart shafts Hunting arrows
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:15 AM
the other DWS's Avatar
the other DWS the other DWS is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berrien Springs, MI in the SW corner of the state
Posts: 4,893
Thanks: 290
Thanked 998 Times in 578 Posts
the other DWS is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

thats a good situation/resolution. You are on the cusp between short/medium and you are dealing with limbs of a higher order of quality and design. Its the guys trying to pull used industrial "shorts" 29 inches and on inappropriate risers who are going to do some damage--to the limbs, if not themselves.
__________________
sacred cows make better burger


"In my many years, I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a SHAME, two is a LAW FIRM and three or more is a CONGRESS." ~ John Adams
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-09-2013, 01:29 AM
Rasyad's Avatar
Rasyad Rasyad is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Berkeley, California
Posts: 1,880
Thanks: 860
Thanked 442 Times in 337 Posts
Rasyad is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Yep, I would agree there is always a risk when overdrawing conventional limbs. Of course any limb will fail when pushed too far. That said super recurve geometry and advanced materials allow a range of use that clearly exceeds the performance envelope of conventional limbs and especially limbs of lesser materials and lesser craftsmanship.

Rasyad
__________________
It is not about archery; that is just the forum.

27" Win & Win Inno Max.
Extra Short Border Hex 6H BB2 55lb. @ 28in.
Carbon Express Nano Pro 400 field arrows
AMG Airforce GT 20 Smart shafts Hunting arrows
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-09-2013, 01:55 AM
DanaC's Avatar
DanaC DanaC is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Warren, MA
Posts: 6,845
Thanks: 662
Thanked 1,723 Times in 1,251 Posts
DanaC is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

What poundage are you thinking of trying?
__________________
It's the spending, stupid. (C)

If our steps falter, let it be noted that at least we were not standing still.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-09-2013, 06:29 AM
Stringwalker Jack Stringwalker Jack is offline
Sidelined
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,019
Thanks: 165
Thanked 188 Times in 137 Posts
Stringwalker Jack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasyad View Post
Yep, I would agree there is always a risk when overdrawing conventional limbs. Of course any limb will fail when pushed too far. That said super recurve geometry and advanced materials allow a range of use that clearly exceeds the performance envelope of conventional limbs and especially limbs of lesser materials and lesser craftsmanship.

Rasyad
There's nothing in a Border limb that can't be found in a Samick or Win Win or any other modern limb. Nor would I even suggest the other major makers have lesser craftsmanship. Just saying.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-09-2013, 08:37 AM
Grantmac Grantmac is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Whidbey Island, WA/Duncan, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,645
Thanks: 377
Thanked 970 Times in 679 Posts
Grantmac is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringwalker Jack View Post
There's nothing in a Border limb that can't be found in a Samick or Win Win or any other modern limb. Nor would I even suggest the other major makers have lesser craftsmanship. Just saying.
Jack,

On that you are 100% wrong. There is no other manufacturer that has the materials tech of Border. Uukha might be close, but in a different direction (monolithic construction).
Samick, W&W and Hoyt are just now getting to where Border was 10 years back.

I'd put their long-discontinued TX series against anyone else's current premier limbs.

-Grant
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Grantmac For This Useful Post:
Greysides (03-09-2013)
  #23  
Old 03-09-2013, 08:59 AM
Rasyad's Avatar
Rasyad Rasyad is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Berkeley, California
Posts: 1,880
Thanks: 860
Thanked 442 Times in 337 Posts
Rasyad is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Dana,
Pretty much the same as now, a couple pounds less. New limbs should be 50# @ 27.

Rasyad
__________________
It is not about archery; that is just the forum.

27" Win & Win Inno Max.
Extra Short Border Hex 6H BB2 55lb. @ 28in.
Carbon Express Nano Pro 400 field arrows
AMG Airforce GT 20 Smart shafts Hunting arrows
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-09-2013, 11:20 AM
Greysides's Avatar
Greysides Greysides is online now
Barefaced tightropewalker
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 7,755
Thanks: 1,684
Thanked 2,786 Times in 1,849 Posts
Greysides is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Jack, I'd agree with Grant on that and if you ever make it to this part of the world I'd be glad to give you the opportunity to reconsider your opinion.

I have a reasonable selection of Borders old and current stuff and a few of your old favourites to compare with.

Just bring your 30" DL............

Or a very thick glove.
__________________
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at. - lbg


Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-09-2013, 11:33 AM
Sid's Avatar
Sid Sid is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,116
Thanks: 364
Thanked 1,298 Times in 759 Posts
Sid is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Jack. here is some reading for you:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1969981

Choose the conventional shorter limbs on a longer riser and give a super recurve an even bigger lead...
__________________
We are on Facebook. "Border archery"
We are on Skype "Borderbows"
Our Club is the Border Reivers Archery Club
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-09-2013, 12:59 PM
Rasyad's Avatar
Rasyad Rasyad is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Berkeley, California
Posts: 1,880
Thanks: 860
Thanked 442 Times in 337 Posts
Rasyad is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Sid,

Small world, Joe on ArcheryTalk is talking about the limbs he just bought from me. I am shooting the matching pair on my 25" TF Apex riser.

Rasyad
__________________
It is not about archery; that is just the forum.

27" Win & Win Inno Max.
Extra Short Border Hex 6H BB2 55lb. @ 28in.
Carbon Express Nano Pro 400 field arrows
AMG Airforce GT 20 Smart shafts Hunting arrows
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-09-2013, 04:38 PM
Sid's Avatar
Sid Sid is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,116
Thanks: 364
Thanked 1,298 Times in 759 Posts
Sid is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallworld#section_1

is the software i used for my third year at university.
BSc hons in Geographical information systems.

so yes small world it is.
__________________
We are on Facebook. "Border archery"
We are on Skype "Borderbows"
Our Club is the Border Reivers Archery Club
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-11-2013, 02:45 AM
JohnK JohnK is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 545
Thanks: 132
Thanked 151 Times in 107 Posts
JohnK is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Actually, other recurve limbs *do* have something that Border HEX limbs just don't have:

Glass.

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-11-2013, 04:15 AM
Stringwalker Jack Stringwalker Jack is offline
Sidelined
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,019
Thanks: 165
Thanked 188 Times in 137 Posts
Stringwalker Jack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Border's limb geometry is different, but the material making up the limb is not from Mars. The carbon components are the same as found in other limbs. Perhaps Sid arranged them in a way that was first in the industry but that is all.

I remain unconvinced the Border limb contains anything not found in upper level Korean limbs, or limbs by other makers.

Having worked myself in the racing boat industry for 20 years and being familiar with carbon and bonding agents technology, I can tell you Sid is a great salesman with a loyal but somewhat fawning following. (no offence intended, just an observation)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-11-2013, 04:31 AM
Sid's Avatar
Sid Sid is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,116
Thanks: 364
Thanked 1,298 Times in 759 Posts
Sid is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Short limbs and 27" riser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringwalker Jack View Post
Border's limb geometry is different, but the material making up the limb is not from Mars. The carbon components are the same as found in other limbs. Perhaps Sid arranged them in a way that was first in the industry but that is all.

I remain unconvinced the Border limb contains anything not found in upper level Korean limbs, or limbs by other makers.

Having worked myself in the racing boat industry for 20 years and being familiar with carbon and bonding agents technology, I can tell you Sid is a great salesman.
you will know that S2 glass is not ordinary bow glass.
Bow glass is E glass.
So our TX40 laminate was S2 Glass, cross weave carbon. UD carbon.
the S2 being the outer laminate.
we stopped using this laminate in 2007. and started it in 2001.

ok, now go and look up the Samick range of BF and BF 2 and masters limb.
KPC, on another forum had a 3 year debate over this one about the tradtech limb not containing glass. he stommped up and down about it not being the case. even John Wort told me there was no glass on a Extreme BF limb.
Turns out that it does. and i was right. S2 glass = Zentron S.
so there is a glass in the top end samick limbs.

as for the Hoyt limb. They are not even glear glass on the belly. they contain black glass on the belly, and the limb mass does represent this.

As for W&W. well there Inno was supposed to be a total carbon laminate. but they dont seem to be saying much about the ex series.

and not all carbon is equal.

Id like to see them using the same carbons as we do. that would be interesteing. esp for the money they are selling W&W limbs for.

Whats the mass difference between a N-Apecs. and a EX -Power?
what is the TS difference in the. if you cant feel any change, then there isnt much difference, and if you can get the N-apecs for less moneys.

Id be very confident that our smoothness and speed would be seen by 99% of all people that tried them back to back with any Korean product.

We have seen reports that we are between 4-10 fps faster than any mass produced limb like for like. price for price. but if you wanted a conventional profile, then we do that too. our CV series will deliver more speed, but a SLIGHT smoothness gain over the likes of a Inno type limb but our conventional limb is $378 for the wood core.
Why spend 600 bucks for a limb when somthing thats torsionally stiffer, slighty faster, and slightly smoother than anything out there, for $378 or $443 for the full hyperflex core.

Jack you really have a downer on us.

I can assure you there are NOT many limbs out there with a SE/PDF value of over 1.0 at 28"... we didnt do that without doing our homework.

NOW remember they are going though a dealer , who are taking thier 30-40% cut. so remember they dont have the materials budget since its part gobbled up in dealer discounts.

there are at least 28 different specs of carbon. excluding the use of nanotubes, and resin systems. some of these are expesnive. We have to piggy back some F1 team orders to get some of the carbons we need. Special order stuff, not normal production runs from even the carbon manufacturers dont run this stuff normally.
__________________
We are on Facebook. "Border archery"
We are on Skype "Borderbows"
Our Club is the Border Reivers Archery Club
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
riser, short limbs and 27


Search tags for this page

25 riser with short limbs

,

27 inch riser and short limbs

,

27 inch riser short limbs

,

27 riser medium limbs

,

27 riser short limbs

,

hex 6 bb2

,

inno max riser krw

,

mark hodges badminton

,

mark hodges executive director badminton

,

short limb bow magazine

,

use the inno max riser 27 inch with cheap limbs

,

what length limbs would you use on a 27riser

Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:29 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
PBCustom Strings 2004