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  #1  
Old 05-13-2017, 12:22 PM
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Talking My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

Begins now...



Put a couple camo puffs on Misty here and what a quiet shooting little lady she is!

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Old 05-13-2017, 02:40 PM
John from New Zealand John from New Zealand is offline
 
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

Swing draw, Hill style longbow, for all the past argument around the tech, they still sort of go together in my mind.
Sure they may not be Fita ,but few could argue the dynamics,speed and effectiveness in the field.

BTW, your not looking to bad yourself.
Been on the diet aye ?

John.

Last edited by John from New Zealand; 05-13-2017 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

Hello All
Nice video Jinks
Envious of your camera out fit. [ Later
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  #4  
Old 05-13-2017, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by John from New Zealand View Post
Swing draw, Hill style longbow, for all the past argument around the tech, they still sort of go together in my mind.
Sure they may be Fita ,but few could argue the dynamics,speed and effectiveness in the field.

BTW, your not looking to bad yourself.
Been on the diet aye ?

John.
Thanks John...and what's funny is I purchased this bow because...

#1: I felt like I was getting wimpy just shooting my 38# CH & Tempest rigs and wanted something about 10#s heavier as a "Weight Trainer" and?...

#2: Figured with all the un-used wood shafting I have laying around that a longbow would be a great choice and?...

#3: When I saw this 47# JD Berry Misty Dawn up for sale?...the fact that a Hill style ASL is one of the few types of bows I've never owned before triggered my curiosity and I bought it.

The only problem now is I'm having so much fun with it and it's such a pleasure to shoot and play with?..it's the only bow I've shot since it's arrival and now I'm intrigued with making an honest effort at mastering the style of shooting these type of bows were born for...The Swing Draw.

Just learning a proper grip purchase with this type of bow was an event within itself as was learning the proper bow arm position that goes with it where my last nemesis seems to be achieving a "Dead Static Release" which I haven't got a grip on yet as it's a struggle to achieve and still maintain BT.

I may be looking a bit chipper thanks to my Doctor finally sending e to see an Endochronologist who put me on some designer insulin's that are working real well for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unk Bond View Post
Hello All
Nice video Jinks
Envious of your camera out fit. [ Later
Thanks Unk and it's just a Galaxy S7.
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Old 05-13-2017, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

Jinks

You know how I feel about longbows but you look great .... did you loose some weight ?

You look like your feeling pretty good buddy

Congrats on the new bow
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

You are the Sultan of Swing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il8ZC3O64AU
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  #7  
Old 05-14-2017, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

Swing Draw McGraw
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Old 05-14-2017, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

Thanks Folks!

and?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JParanee View Post
Jinks

You know how I feel about longbows but you look great .... did you loose some weight ?

You look like your feeling pretty good buddy

Congrats on the new bow
Joe...this is not me crying...it's me rejoicing...in the fact that my doctor who first asked if I ever had anyone tell me that my body is no longer making insulin and finally referred me too an Endocrinologist who in turn?...was pretty disgusted that my doctor had me on mostly long acting insulin and very little fast acting insulin...(which had my sugar levels spiking all over the place)...and she changed that.

What you see before the wood arrows is about $5,000 worth of insulin purchased in the last month where fortunately?...my end of that was less than $500...



but with my Endo gal putting me on Tresiba "Long Acting" (which she claims is the latest greatest insulin that mimics the human pancreas better than any other as it triggers when you eat) and boosting me up to 100% Novolog "Fast Acting" (before meals)?...I'm feeling 1,000% better and has revived my interest in living rather than leaving this world a toe, a foot and a leg at a time because for the first time in many years?...my blood sugar is now under control!

This has me fired up about life again which in turn has me now spiritual fit enough to tackle getting physically fit again which in turn?....saw me shopping for a heavier DW bow that resulted in this new-to-me ASL...which is a whole new journey within itself...but enough about me as I got a text from my young longbow shooting coworker Derrick...the one who was over-bowed with a Black Widow PLX...who I talked into contacting Kegan where he ordered up an Omega Ipe Imperial that just came in yesterday and he couldn't be happier texting me this pic...



He says the bows a shooter!

I gotta go now...I have some ASL Swing Draw form to work on! L8R, Bill.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

I practiced the Hill swing draw for about two years. My intent was to get better at shooting IBO targets above ground level, in trees, and also aerial target disks. I really sucked at aerial targets, LOL. Before that I used a short downswing draw. which caused problems in some venues.
Bottom line, I never got as good with the Hill style as I was before it, except for aerial targets. I still suck at those, but at least I hit one every so often.
Right now I'm shooting a Hoyt Buffalo and using Eichler's straight draw with a slight cant. I'm also practicing some of the Iron Mind tricks from The Push. Getting a reliable anchor point was one of my issues. It's much better now. I use the anchor point as a trigger. That can be hard to do with the swing draw.
I also have a 45 lb Wolf Paw reflex/deflex bow, almost a longbow. I haven't been shooting it much, but I'll try both methods on it and see what happens. It's a way different bow from the Buffalo.
Jinkster, except for your being a better archer, we have much in common. You have got me ordering a Covert Hunter. Let's see if the swing draw works for you on your CH.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenlbear View Post
Jinkster, except for your being a better archer, we have much in common. You have got me ordering a Covert Hunter. Let's see if the swing draw works for you on your CH.
My CH comes in at just under 4#s (mass weight)...the 21" phenolic riser w/ weighted stab bushing alone is just under 3lbs...meanwhile my JD Berry Misty Dawn ASL?...weighs 19ozs....(1lb/3ozs)...and I would no sooner attempt to swing draw my CH than I would try to swing draw my way through a 900rd with my ASL (though it would be fun to try! LOL!)



learning what a proper grip on the ASL is and properly applying such has taken me 2 weeks alone...and it's easy to see why here.....



Today?...I graduated to "Pointing My Index Finger"....



and got all excited cause it seems to be working...to some degree...out to 15yds anyways...



BTW?...I can see where many folks could be easily put off shooting ASL/HH type longbows...I've been studying up on them and gleaning much from those who are dedicated to such and finding that they do require a very different approach and much from the archer form and execution wise to be fully appreciated.

But I'm kind of digging that.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

So as my journey into learning the "Swing Draw" with my Hill style Longbow continued?...(mainly cause I'm just having too much fun shooting woodies off this thing! LOL!)...I encountered a few challenges the first being how to properly grip the bow where according to the practitioners of such?...a low wrist with a lot of heel pressure is preferred for this style of shooting and I can easily see why because unlike shooting a full pistol griped recurve?...the grip pressure resides centered unto the fleshy part of the thumb pad rather than centered to the palms web where my palms lifeline is literally wrapped around the side of the bows grip where also?...it's advised that the index finger be left loose so as not to create any "Above Center" grip pressure which would in turn create an imbalance in the shot behavior of the bow sending the upper limb tip rocking backwards at the shot.

Once I had "The Grip" in hand?...(like that one? LOL!)....my next challenge was the release where I've been shooting recurves with a rather dynamic release?...Don Shulz advises that both the bow hand and string hand should remain static at the shot so?...it took quite some effort for me to break myself of flinging my string hand away from by face or allowing it to fly back behind my head and basically keeping it glued too the side of my face at anchor which along with the abbreviated DL that comes with this style of shooting?...made me question if I was in fact achieving and maintaining "Back Tension" where this evening?...I answered that question for myself...here's the vid...the first of four shots is in slow motion and the last 3 shots are real time and are the only four shots I've taken today...with a form-master.

In the "Comment" box...

"I'm still learning and ingraining the aspects of executing a proper swing draw style of shooting as demonstrated by Don Shulz (who was instructed by the legendary "Howard Hill") via his series of utoob instructional video's and to paraphrase and old Beatles song?..."With a little help from My Friends! LOL! but?...was left wondering if I was still maintaining "Back Tension" with the abbreviated draw length of this style of shooting that's cut nearly 2"s of draw length from my 28" tournament style of form and I'd say that my "Back Tension" is still in full force."


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Old Yesterday, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

My "Swing Draw Training" is officially....OVER!
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Old Yesterday, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

lol

Care to elaborate?
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Old Yesterday, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

Shamelessly copied and pasted but this should do....

**************************************

I really applied myself to learning this technique...watching, listening, learning and step-by-step?...doing.

As with most other learning curves?...the lions share of progress was made up front where I felt as though I was advancing my swing draw skill level in leaps and bounds where with me being very focused on mastering this technique the only real challenge I encountered was breaking myself of my dynamic release too a static release where I also questioned and addressed back tension but managed to adapt myself to that as well and now feeling as though I had things well in hand?...last night?...

"I Backed Up 5yds Too 20yds"

where if there were a 20yd indoor target hanging?...1/2 of my shots wouldn't of hit paper.

I wrote that off as just me not being ready yet to tackle 20yds and moved back up to 15yds where I continued to spray arrows in a slightly smaller large group which is when I began to suspect that maybe it was the wide variety of wood arrow spines and weights where I began to blame the arrows so?...I eliminated that by sticking with one configuration of my cedars and?...continued to experience some very disenchanting results which is when I narrowed it down too?..."Me"....I must be doing something wrong and that's when the fishing expedition started with me focusing on each aspect of my shot one shot at a time which also included me slowing my shot tempo down to the point I was once again following a shot sequence being very conscious of every step and?...I still sucked. LOL!

At this point?...I got a bad case of the "Screw It's" because?...

In involving myself in the Hill/ASL Swing Draw communities?...I began to slowly recognize that many of those who claim to use a Hill/Shulz Swing Draw style of shooting?...would also suffix it by stating things that began with the word...."Except"...followed with?..."I do this/that differently..."

And now?...I was beginning to question the entire Swing Draw system which is when I cleared my head of it and just went with my old style of instinctive snap where the only portion of the Swing Draw system I retained was the proper grip position on my straight gripped Hill style longbow and outside of the occasional random flier where I could also immediately feel I screwed up on the shot somehow?....I instantaneously began grouping arrows again...of all weights and spines...using an extremely dynamic release with my string hand flying back behind my ear and that?...got me thinking....stuff like?...

1. Of all the Hill/Shulz video's I've seen?....(and I watched many of them trying to learn)....I can't recall watching either of them executing a shot more than 15yds away with most of their "Trick Shooting" being in the 8-10yd shot distances.

2. The last person to win anything using this system was Bob Wesley....where he was dubbed "National Longbow Champion"....(In 1982!)

3. Matter fact?...I can't fill a hand with archers who made a name for themselves using the Swing Draw system and of those who have?...they were somehow directly connected too and/or trained by HH himself...(que the old clich'e: "Riding Shirt Tails"?)

4. And then there was this video I happened to stumble upon in my utoob travels...(Note: Watch his string hand on his first shot executed at the 12 second mark...does that look "Static" too you? LOL!)



Now that video above?...is not entirely accurate in it's criticism of HH as the one flaw I did find in it is...

The arrow in the blue ring was not shot by him...it was one of the arrows shot by one of the females there where if you watch the original "Cavalcade of Archery"?...he pulls that arrow and hands it back too her but the rubber band around the "Two Arrows trick" and?...."The Broadheads That Bounced Off The Target"?...really made me question the authenticity of anything this legend had to demonstrate.

and too date?...the only shots longer than about 15yds executed by HH are not available for viewing but only spoken or read about in his auto-biographies which included him describing how he "Walked In Shots" on live game that were well beyond his effective range...but what I do think he had at his disposal were some of the worlds best "Trackers" LOL!

In conclusion?...it is my belief that the term "Swing Draw" was just the extremely enterprising HH re-branding what everyone already knew as "Instinctive Snap" where he attempted to describe a "Shot Sequence" of "How He Does It"...and even failed at that as evidenced by his own slightly dynamic..."static release"? LOL!...where I have concluded the best way for an archer to snap shoot instinctively is how THEY instinctively do so.

(as an aside): For decades I was involved in bands with some very talented musicians who unfortunately?...always wanted the fast track to gigs and glory by playing "Cover Music"...where I was always of the opinion that Ted Nugent didn't become Ted Nugent by playing BB King covers...and we never "Made It"...where to me?...this is much like that.

That said?...here's a man I can admire...now notice his "String Hand"

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Old Today, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: My Swing Draw Training W/ an ASL...

The swing draw is a fine way to draw the Bow and shoot as long as your form is always seated in at anchor and it is always repeatable like Hills was. I can shoot the swing draw great and do so slow and methodically and hit as good as anyway.

The swing draw is no good for hunting for me because of all the movement unless I am shooting at a running bunny or an aerial target like a Pheasant

It has it's placed in archery and not just for a lob but for any trad bow, one string.

I like the less movement on a draw and the Kasik Lee biometric draw is what I have been trying lately when my bad arm will let me.

The whole Hill style Bow and woodies are intriguing but you must give up certain aspects of archery and realize you will get your butt handed to you on most 3D deals unless you are shooting with the same equipment.

I think I could go nothing but Hil bows and make woodies and be happy but it is a road one must be dedicated to and sure of the change.

You can learn to shoot long bows on the ground and in awkward positions but it takes work and really only shooting the same type Bow year round.

You do give up speed and ease of shooting high dollar smooth recurve ILF limbs and short Bows which is always a temptation and will be the hardest challenge to make the Hill style change if you are a Bow Harlot already and trade and sell all the time.
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