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Breathn Strings

4K views 27 replies 8 participants last post by  Breathn 
#1 ·
Just recently (maybe a week ago) a member here asked about strings for a Border CH to which our member Breathn here (John's Customs) promptly responded where he had tried 8125, 8190 and Fast Flight Plus where of the 3?...He liked the FF+ string material best and with that?...

I promptly PM'ed him asking if he'd being willing to make me strings out of the FF+ string material for both my Hex7.5 CH and my Hex7 Tempest rig which he did and they arrived Priority Mail today! :)

In our conversing John mentioned a couple things too me...one was that these would be "Endless Loop" (and not Flemish twist) as he feels the served ends track cleaner in the string grooves and the second thing he mentioned (that I was happy to hear) was that he uses Majesty for his serving material...and I was happy to hear that because while I know I've loosed at least a couple thousand shots off the string that's on my CH?...the center serving was already getting a little past "fuzzy" where the nock leaves the string and I felt this sort of wear to be a bit premature where I'd be better served with a more durable serving material and John delivered and I also went with his color choices for my CH which were Light Green & Tan w/ a Black Pinstripe...



and it did look quite tasteful on my CH...



I also thought the two different color end loop servings were a neat touch and I'd pit the quality of John's wraps against the best I've seen as not only were his strands well organized...



but his servings were cleanly done & tight...



So how did it play out?...

From fresh off the paper clip with no twists added or taken away my CH braced at 7 3/8ths"...this is 3/8ths over the max recommended but I felt certain all that (and maybe more) would stretch out and go away as I shot it in and?...

After 12 Shots: It was at 7 1/4" BH too the front of the serving (loosing 1/8th")

After 24 Shots: It was at 7 1/4" BH

After 48 Shots: It was at 7 1/4" BH

After 100 Shots: It was at 7 1/4" BH too the middle of the serving.

Sound Wise?:

While my ears could (just barely) detect that the tightly wrapped served ends were coming into the limbs string grooves harder?...it just seemed a difference in tone and type of noise but nothing I'd term as actually being any louder...and this is with no string leeches like were on the string it replaced.

John?...Thanks so much man!...The strings are real nice and now I can't wait to get the other one on the Tempest! :)
 
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#2 ·
Nice review Jinks. The string looks good on there.
I haven't used Johns strings myself, but I can say in my years of shooting compound his strings were always very well regarded by the compound community, as was the work he did on his customers bows. I'm sure you will be more then happy with your new strings.



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#3 ·
Thanks Jinks ,those loose pieces on each end are to seperate colors in perfect center to put your silencers in..On a 3 color string it's hard to get that perfect center so I stick piece of material in before twisting ,so if not putting any in just pull those out..
Also they are pre stretched at 400 pds on air stretchers so they usually won't move after the initial settling period of first few shots .
 
#5 ·
Wow keeping the colors separated is something I'm trying to learn. Great looking string!!! On the flip side, isnt the string short Jinks? You shouldn't be shooting it outside of the recommended bh. Looks like the end servings could be a bit longer as well. Tough to sort those things out without having a set to measure no doubt.
 
#7 ·
I have no clue why you're saying the servings should be longer cause from what I'm seeing?...this string is spot on in every way..including loop size.

John has owned quite a few sets of Borders Hex7/7.5 limbs and the first thing he questioned was the string length of my Hex7.5 CH string...the one I pulled off that had it at a 7" BY measured just under 62 3/8ths"...loops stretched straight.

We both knew this seemed short by at least 1/2" so I measured again and got the same thing...why?...I have no clue...maybe because of the .036" shim pack I installed between the lower limb base and riser?

Anyways?....it only stretched 1/8th"...down too 7 1/4" BH ...which I don't feel is abusive to this bow whose DO range is 27"-29" with a 30" max draw..while I draw 28"s and am shooting 525gr/13.8+top arrows...and still getting 170-172fps
 
#8 ·
My bad John, I saw the end serving length incorrectly. Where I saw the last ring is far from where the serving stops, sorry about that. As for the length, is there enough twist to get down to 6.5" bh? Again great looking string and only losing 1/8" is awesome.
 
#9 ·
....Again great looking string and only losing 1/8" is awesome.
Yep....besides the top tier build quality?....I was quite taken to observe this string lose only 1/8" after the first dozen shots and then stabilize for what was somewhere around 100 shots total.

At first I thought this was attributable to the endless loop build VS Flemish as I've had Rhino and Fury class Flemish strings behave like this where for FF+ to act the same was completely unexpected.

But now I suspect John's 400# tension had much to do with it as well cause this string?....made D97 look like a bungee cord! :lol:

Thanks again John and order #2 is forthcoming. ;)
 
#10 ·
I'll be first to admit I've always been one to build with least stretch material possible on compounds..So going with a material with more elasticity was hard for me but I learned just because it's more elastic doesn't mean it'll stretch ..I've got a ilf riser I machined and put set of hex 6 limbs on with 16 strands of the fast flite plus and being 54pds at my draw after approximately 1,000 shots the brace only moved 1/8 inch ..And like you saw Jinks it was in first 50-100 shots and hasn't moved since .And I don't attribute that to stretch but in fact the strands letting the elasticity take place .
I'm also liking 8190 ,Wich I used years ago but got away from it on compounds but on single string rigs it and fast flite plus seem a tad quieter to me.
 
#16 ·
Re: Breathn Strings UPDATE:

So?...after the weekend?...I guess Sid Sr. got back to his PC where after reading some of my rambling diatribe he sent me an email...a nice one...expressing concern and passing on some "General Information" too me where he wanted to inform me that while a 7" BH is just fine and within the accepted range?....that I may be better served by lowering my BH towards the mean of 6 3/4"s letting me know he gets his best results at 6 5/8th" BH.

He also advised that lowering the BH makes life much easier on the limbs explaining how it moves the position of closing shock down towards the limb bases by changing the bend moment via a lower BH.

Sid then went on to say that while use of an endless loop string is just fine?....he advises that the string should have no less than 20 twists.

Where armed with that knowledge?...I came home from work this evening and couldn't wait to count how many twists were left in my string (after taking just 5 twists out) where I counted 28 twists not including what may be hidden under the loop end and center servings where I felt comfy taking out 10 more twists and in the process?...finally removing the string tags John had pre-installed in this string to identify "The Strings True Center" (strand separation wise) and installing a pair of "Sims String Leech Silencers" and here's where things became interesting and?...where I got a chuckle thinking...

"I just installed a set of SHOCK ABSORBERS In My String!"

where I could literally "feel the difference" in my first shots via the perfectly separated strands at the strings true center compressing against the soft rubber body of the string leech silencers like so...



and even with these silencers installed in the string?...those 10 twists less dropped my BH down to 6 3/4" and the bow was quieter and the limbs closed softer than I ever felt before and for bonus points?....

I guess the added mass of the silencers too the string countered the extra 1/4" of DFC gained (by lowering BH) leaving my rig STILL in an impeccable state of tune...



and after settling in?...I recounted the string twists where it seems 3 more twists appeared...maybe from out under the servings?...for a total twist count of 21 "visible" twists. :)

Thought I'd share that with you folks and L8R, Bill. :)
 
#17 ·
So I finally managed to switch gears from the CH too the Tempest where I managed to get the new Breathn string strung up on it as well where there was a lot going on in my head because...well?...I've been loving the smoothness of the CH so much with it's Medium Hex7.5 limbs?...it made the Hex7 shorts on my Tempest feel well?...not quite as smooth....hence I was shooting the CH more and the Tempest less to the point that I actually contacted Sid Sr. asking for current pricing and lead time on a set of Hex7.5 ILF Mediums for the Tempest where he responded by going over some "Set-Up Tips" where he cited that many like me go after performance by running the limb bolts in and the BH high where he brought to my attention that while some marginal speed gains can be had doing so?...that it often comes at a large cost to "Feel" and that the reason the speed gains are marginal at best?...is because the actual power stroke has been decreased and that as little as 1/4" of BH can mean the gain or loss of up to 1" of string wrap in the limb grooves and?....that because of the Hex7 series limbs being very front end stacked?...there is very little cost to "Static String Tension" by running both a longer string with a lower BH so?...

I ran my limb bolts out to the max which on this riser with these Hex7 short limbs?...was 5 turns out on the bottom limb bolt and 4 1/2 turns out on the upper limb bolt which resulted in a 6 3/4" BH and even tiller at 5 1/4"s both top and bottom and here's what that looks like...





and because I had to take 10 twists out of the string?...Breathn is making me not one but two more longer strings for this rig...one of FF+ and one of 8190...to shop, compare and review which I'll try to do my best at with string weight, velocities and such.

Meanwhile?...this rig is shooting fantastic the way it is pictured above and I'm no longer entertaining the idea of upgrading limbs as I'm very content after the latest tuning adjustments and huge thanks go out to both Breathn and The Sids! :)
 
#18 ·
Interesting read Bill, even if only because I'd never run that setup in either configuration as I find I'm spoiled by medium and long limbs on whatever risers I'm shooting. Shooting 68-70" bows has spoiled me, I'd just never choose shorts but I understand the deep hooks require you stay in the meat if you want to get the gains and feel they are designed to give. I'd always set up a 25" riser with mediums or even longs for under chin anchor and any riser shorter is getting longs for sure.
Always interesting to see how other setups work for other people though.
Thanks and definitely let us know what you find when you shoot the new strings.


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#19 ·
I don't know Steve...maybe Breathn will see this and chime in here as I wasn't even aware there are two type's of 8190 however?...I will say this....and this is JMHO!....but my thoughts (and actual "feeling")....is this....

Those string leeches installed the way I described and depicted above?....add a good amount of elasticity to the string and seem to absorb a good amount of closing shock.

But again?...that's JMHO...FWIW....and?....YMMV ;)
 
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#21 ·
Yeah...and it gets confusing for me as well because from what I researched?....8190 is "A Blend" where the other component is "Vectran"....which is an LCP (Liquid Crystal Polymer) where my understanding is that is the very stuff we're supposed to avoid and is a major component in BCY-X and Fury.

But like I said?....Im confused there and?....very uneducated.

Jinks Im curious to see how long those leeches last. I havent had much luck, they seem to get cut in half.
And I can understand kenn in that...

When I received test samples of BCY-X, Fury and Majesty777?....

I was shocked at how thin and abrasive the X and Fury strands were as compared to stuff like D97 and 8180 where it felt like the strands had such a high content of LCP it seemed like real thin sanding string...very thin and abrasive....which I can envision cutting it's way through rubber string leeches in short order.
 
#23 ·
Hi Breathn,

that's quite interresting. I have thought it's basically the same in terms of elasticity, since both are advertised as 100% Dyneema SK90 and the 8190 F being the one without additional Gore. Would be really great, if you could share some data related to this.

@ Jinkster: Really looking forward to your test comparing both strings.
 
#25 ·
An important point that was brought up a while back as I was speaking with someone affiliated with the string making industry is this....

It's an extreme rarity that any newly developed string material will be formulated or woven with much regard (if any at all) given to it's use on single string bows.

Of the tonnage of string material that's sold on an annual basis?...only a very small percentage will find it's way to recurves and longbows as the vast majority of it will ultimately be wrapped around wheels.

Us?...we cautiously make due with what crumbs fall from that table.
 
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