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'Known range' 3D ?

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7K views 56 replies 31 participants last post by  Dana C 
#1 ·
This was mentioned in another thread but rather than muddy the water over there -

I only recently became aware of the idea of 'known range' 3D shooting, and my first thought was 'hunh?' I've always operated under the assumption that 3D was a hunting game where yardage was unknown, just like in the woods.

I have no problem with 'field' target shooting, indoor or outdoor, 20 yards or 70 meters or whatever. Just bothers my crotchety old self to see an essential (imo of course) element removed from 3D.

Thoughts?
 
#2 ·
I think that as long as it has it's own class then it harms no one. It's the fastest growing class here and it brings in field guys to play so I'm all for it.
I've never bought into the "hunting practice" thing, it's just a target game to me anyway.


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#3 ·
"" I've never bought into the "hunting practice" thing, it's just a target game to me anyway.""

That's 'cause you never shot my course ;-)
 
#5 · (Edited)
When I first heard of known yardage 3Ds, my opinion was the same as yours. For some reason, the thought offended some sense of purity in me. That was several years ago, and I’ve since changed my mind.

I’ve shot a few known yardage 3D shoots over the past several years, an annual safari shoot in WI, the indoor 3D in Kalamazoo and just last weekend a 34-animal round at my local club. Honestly, I enjoy the heck out of it. Yes, it removes a major element of normal 3D archery, but it also removes something else…excuses.

If I know a wolf target is 32 yards away and I hit three inches low, I can’t tell myself I made a perfect shot but misjudged the distance. I know my shot was off. Known distance 3D allows me to enjoy a pastime I love—3D archery—while forcing me to accept the reality of my own accuracy. I think it’s a pretty fun idea, and I hope more clubs in my area give it a try.
 
#6 ·
I like both aspects of known and un-known yardage. A big benefit of known and the main reason we chose to do it at the Kalamazoo Expo was time constraints. It will make a round go a little faster if the yardage is already known. No time spent (indoors) counting steps from targets, or looking at 8ft sections of walls, or ceiling tiles, etc. If someone doesn't gap or stringwalk and they don't care about exact yardage then don't use the info. There is also zero reason for any one to suggest that "so and so is pacing the targets, that's cheating."

On a side note: The other time saver in our pocket if binocs ever cause to much of a slow down, is orange dots in the 10 ring ala Redding.


For outdoor when I'm shooting "hunting practice" 3d rounds I prefer un-known. It helps when I go hunting and forget my range finder. ;0)
 
#8 · (Edited)
I just shot our local club's known-distance course last Saturday (with Wesbrock....) I found it to be very helpful. I will take the shot first, and then use the sheet to help me understand my shooting error, or success. In other words, I am not a purely gap-shooting longbow guy, but I do find it helpful to know ball-park distances, over different terrain, etc. to improve my shooting. Plus the guys that set it up did a fine job -- most shots 22-32 yards (except for the quartering-away gummy bear at 18 yards...).

benzy: I shot that indoor K'zoo course at the Expo. You guys did a nice job. I liked the pay-out. Thanks.
 
#9 ·
I regard "known distance" 3d events to simply be a nice change up from the standard format. No doubt that it may be more appealing to those archers who have not developed the skill to judge distances and are afraid of losing or damaging arrows, so if it gets them to play the game, it's all good.
 
#11 ·
Our local 3D circuit 3D always has two courses to be shot, a marked "known range" and an unmarked range.
It doesn't bother me either way and I normally shoot the same sort of scores on both courses.
Plus at between 10 and 35 yards I've never felt I needed to be told the ranges.
Marked ranges have always been for the benefit of the compound sighted folks to show their shooting skills rather than their range finding skills.
We find it works for everybody and attracts more competition amongst a fairly small shooting community.

John.
 
#12 ·
Just like hunting a person can chose to "know" the distance (rangefinders aren't uncommon) or not. Just because the information is present doesn't mean you have to use it.

Grant
 
#15 ·
"Marked 3D" is popular in Northern California were as "unmarked" is popular in Southern California. So there was two shoots for state. Not a bad thing in my mind.
We tried it a couple times at our club. Of course according to the "experts" our ranges were not correct. Their range finders were always better than ours. So we gave it up. Just run a shoot where rangefinders are OK.
 
#17 ·
The shoots I shoot at they call it known 40 and known 50. shooters use there range finder to get the yardage and then shoot. I can see where the compound hunters that use rangefinders hunting would like it. it might keep a new shooter from loosing some arrows starting out.
 
#18 ·
I'm all for it. I don't do unknown hunting. I used to not like the idea, but the success in the ASA is having has definitely changed my mind. Seems like it brings a lot of people into the sport that would otherwise not participate. You have to put in just as much time judging yardage ad you do shooting to be very proficient. Some of us just don't have that time.

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#19 ·
Like Cecil says, it's called K50, K40 etc here. The K50 has outgrown the Open class after about one season of being introduced. I know plenty of "Trad" guys who vocally object to it saying it's heresy for 3D but I think it will grow 3D way bigger. The new federations in both Ontario and the UK are ASA based and mostly known, I think it's the way it's headed now.


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#20 ·
I gap at the bow and have 1/2", 3/8", and 1/4" gaps. I cant see converting to mm or trying to see the difference between 1/4 and 5/16 cause the distance is 27yds and not 30. If it helps you to know the distance, great, but I wont be changing gaps if it went to known.

While we are making it easier for everybody with hopes of getting more shooters, why not put all the targets at the same distance. So you shoot white stake all your shots are 25yds. You shoot orange, all your shots are 30yds. Lets give everybody a ribbon that says winner. :lol:
 
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#21 ·
Removes a LOT of home field advantage and also the advantage guys have who own a lot of 3D targets.

Grant
 
#24 ·
With so few field tournaments, known yardage 3D is a way to get practice. The problem with unmarked is that I don't know if I executed a poor shot, or missed on the distance. There are some major marked shoots, including Redding. And don't a lot of hunters use range finders? Or spot distances ahead of time from their tree?
 
#25 ·
It is just another game. It is a matter of choice. I think marked 3D is preferred in the Western US and NorCal because all clubs have field archery ranges to 80 yards and the easiest way to set up a shoot is to just put the animal figures in front of the butts. Also there are way more compound archers than us and they really like to know the distance.

The Redding shoot is up hill and down dale, and the Bigfoot is at 101 yards. So even though it is marked I think it is the most challenging tourney of all. Especially with a longbow and wooden arrows. But I am biased because I won it.

But, in truth I think unmarked is a better test of bowhunting archery skill. I do think the IBO version is too short, just circa 33 yards for longbow. In my opinion that encourages too specialized short range setup and technique, like high anchors, long heavy arrows and weak bows. I don't want to be merely a short range specialist; I want to be an all around good archer.

Most shoots hereabout have targets to 45 yards, often a big one circa 55. to be more complete test of archery skill. If you are not good to 50 yards and more, you are not much. - lbg
 
#27 ·
As long as everyone uses the same rules then it is just competition. You could put in a 3D course rule that everyone has to shoot standing on one leg. As Mr. Demmer says, it is still competition.

I am usually a good guesser (just not a good shooter yet) out to 25-26 yards. I don't personally know anyone else who shoots a recurve; the few friends I shoot with have wheelie bows and always ask why they have to guess the distances, usually after they lose an arrow on the longer ones. Later in the season they do use their rangefinders, preparing for hunting season, but they don't turn in their cards.

If there is a demand, I guess an easy solution for the competition part is to make white scorecards and yellow scorecards - maybe pay an extra $2 and allow the use of rangefinders with your yellow card. White competes with the other whites, yellow competes with the other yellows.
 
#28 ·
I like Demmers point, "I dont hunt unknown". From my ground blind and treestands I know the yardage to every reference point out to 50 yds.

It should be very informative to those that want to guess the yardage, you get to see how close you were before you shoot.

Hey, if it gets more people involved its a good thing
 
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